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 Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)

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exael
őrnagy
őrnagy
exael

Male Hozzászólások száma : 754
Location : Beyond the Mountains of Madness
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 14.

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TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyHétf. Dec. 31, 2007 2:04 am

helló!

Engem az érdekelne,ha már irtad valahol akkor bocs,de még nem volt időm mindent elolvasni...Tehát,hogy milyen szinűek lesznek?Melyik rend,esetleg saját..?És jövő hétvégére megmondom,hogy van-e valami elfekvő amit kérdeztél,illetve bemegyek a gyantásokhoz is.
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gojo
dandártábornok
dandártábornok
gojo

Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
Age : 39
Location : Pécs
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

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TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptySzomb. Dec. 29, 2007 3:10 am

1500 as általános mech lista:

HQ
1. Canoness (Frag Grenades, Bolt Pistol, Blessed Weapon, Book of St. Lucius, Cloak of St. Aspira, Jump Pack); 122 Pts

2. Canoness (Brazier of Holy Fire, Power Weapon, Book of St Lucius); 70 Pts

ELITES
3. 8 Celestians (Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Rhino w/Extra Armor, Smoke Launcher); 184 Pts

TROOPS
4. 10 Battle Sisters (Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Veteran Sister Superior w/Book of St. Lucius, Rhino w/Extra Armor, Smoke Launcher); 209 Pts

5. 10 Battle Sisters (Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Veteran Sister Superior w/Book of St. Lucius, Rhino w/Extra Armor, Smoke Launcher); 209 Pts

6. 10 Battle Sisters (Meltagun, Heavy Flamer, Veteran Sister Superior w/Book of St. Lucius, Rhino w/Extra Armor, Smoke Launcher); 209 Pts

FAST

7. 8 Seraphim (2 Hand Flamers, Veteran Seraphim Superior w/Eviscerator); 225 Pts

HEAVY
8. Exorcist; 135 Pts

9. Exorcist; 135 Pts


9 faith points
1498 points.
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gojo
dandártábornok
dandártábornok
gojo

Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
Age : 39
Location : Pécs
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

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TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyPént. Dec. 28, 2007 1:41 am

újabb lista, némi inducted guard beütéssel, mkerr től

HQ
Canoness (Jump Pack, Frags, BP/Blessed Weapon, Book, Cloak)

ELITE
Inquisitor (Bolter), 3 HB Servitors, 1 Chirurgeon, 1 Acolyte (CA, Bolter)
Eversor Assassin
3 Death Cult Assassins

TROOPS
10 Battle Sisters (2 Meltaguns, VSS w/ Bolter and Book)
10 Battle Sisters (2 Meltaguns, VSS w/ Bolter and Book)
Infantry Platoon 1
- Command Squad (Jr Officer w/Storm Bolter&PW, 2 Plasma Guns, Medic, LasCannon)
- Infantry Squad A (Grenade Launcher, LasCannon)
- Infantry Squad B (Grenade Launcher, LasCannon)
Infantry Platoon 2
- Command Squad (Jr Officer w/Bolter&PW, 2 Flamers, Missile Launcher)
- Infantry Squad A (Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher)
- Infantry Squad B (Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher)

FAST
Sentinel (ACC. Autocannon)
Sentinel (ACC. Autocannon)
Sentinel (ACC. Autocannon)

HEAVY
8 Retributors (4 HB, VSS w/ Bolter, Book)
8 Retributors (4 HB, VSS w/ Bolter, Book)
Leman Russ (BC, 3 HBs, PMHS, TGs, RTM)
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gojo
dandártábornok
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gojo

Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
Age : 39
Location : Pécs
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

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TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyCsüt. Dec. 27, 2007 7:14 pm

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93588[url][/url][url][/url]

egy fórum, ahol összegyűjtötték az eddig kialakult véleményeket.
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gojo
dandártábornok
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gojo

Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
Age : 39
Location : Pécs
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

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TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyKedd Dec. 25, 2007 1:54 am

1 Canoness
Krak Grenades; Book of St. Lucius; Cloak of St. Aspira; Jump Pack; Plasma pistol (x1); Blessed Weapon


1 Inquisitor
1 Acolyte
Carapace Armour; Laspistol (x1); Close combat weapon
1 Sage
Laspistol; Close combat weapon
1 Warrior
1 Gun Servitor
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Heavy Bolter

5 Dominion Squad
Veteran Sister Superior; Imagifer; Simulacrum Imperialis; Bolter; Flamer (x2); Meltagun (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior
Book of St. Lucius; Brazier of Holy Fire (x1); Storm bolter

1 Immolator
Dozer Blade; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Twin Heavy Flamer


3 Death-Cult Assassins
Close combat weapon; Power Weapon

12 Battle Sisters Squad
Veteran Sister Superior; Imagifer; Simulacrum Imperialis; Bolter (x10); Storm bolter (x1); Heavy Flamer
1 Veteran Sister Superior
Bolter


12 Battle Sisters Squad
Veteran Sister Superior; Imagifer; Simulacrum Imperialis; Bolter (x10); Meltagun (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior
Bolter


8 Seraphim Squad
Veteran Sister Superior; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Twin Linked Bolt Pistols (x6); Twin Linked Inferno Pistols (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [57] Pts
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Simulacrum Imperialis; Book of St. Lucius; Jump Pack; Brazier of Holy Fire (x1); Power Weapon (x1)
1 Book of St. Lucius
1 Jump Pack


1 Exorcist
Exorcist Missile Launcher

1 Exorcist @
Exorcist Missile Launcher

Total Roster Cost: 1500

a válasz erre mkerr:

Great list. Here are a few comments:

HQ
1. You don't need Krak grenades on your Canoness. She can make her Blessed Weapon S7 which is good enough for anything you would use Krak grenades on. I also reccommend losing the Plasma Pistol -- I've learned that it just makes charging more difficult. If you want to take advantage of her BS5 give her a bolt pistol.

ELITE
2. A chirurgeon would be better in this squad than a Sage. Buy your Inquisitor a Liber Heresius and a Bolter. I would also buy the Acolyte a Bolter.
3. I would lose the Dominion Squad. It used to be a great squad, but Immolators are coffins now and a good player is going to pop it on their first or second shooting phase.
4. If you can work in an Eversor or a Callidus it will help out.

TROOPS
5. I prefer 10-man squads, but 12 are fine. I would lose the SI and change the special weapons to 2 Meltaguns. One of these VSSs needs a Book of St Lucius (or you could add a stripped Canoness or Palantine to your HQ with a book).

FAST
6. Definitely go with 2 Hand Flamers with your Seraphim. This unit is much better against infantry than tanks. Lose the Book on the VSS (your Canoness should be in range of this unit with her book).

As you add points to the army, add a 2nd HQ (preferably a stripped Canoness with a Book of St Lucius -- this radiates LD10 and provides faith points for your other Canoness/Seraphim). Then I would add a couple of IST squads in Chimeras -- you could really use some additional mobility.

meg mégegy orborostól:

From what I'm seeing right now the biggest thing your list is hurting for is mobility/objective taking.

If you're only playing on smallish tables 4x4 or 4x5 it shouldn't be too bad but anything bigger and you're going to run into some problems. Either way the proposed Rhino squad will help that.

The Seraphim give you mobility but they also come with the unfortunate bonus of being perhaps one of the most shot at units in 40K. Back when I used to use them in my list I had times when a guy would use quite literaly his entire army on them in a single shooting phase.

The other problem you have is a lack of long range shooting that isn't exorcists.

The first thing I'd do to remedy both would be to take out the Dominions and buy a Chimera with 6 ST in it.

Dominions, or more to the point immolators, are another one of those "kill it, kill it, kill it!" type units. Even though it's just a razorback with heavy flamers the amount of firepower it attracts is extreme. This doesn't necessarily make it useless but it does mean that you're not going to be able to use it to reliably take objectives or move up the table, which is what you need.

The immolator/dominion combo works much better now as a lineguard and counter attack/interceptor unit, much the same is true of Seraphim.

By replacing the Dominions with a Chimera you get a much more heavily armed tank with better armour that, oddly enough, attracts way less attention. It also gives you two 3 shot weapons out to 36" that can both fire while the tank moves forward 6" per turn to claim and objective. The tank itself can't hold one but the squad inside can and with 24" plasma guns, they can typically do it better than dominions, especially if their tank, or the wreck of their tank, is nearby for them to hide behind.

Now here's where things get controversial.

I don't really much care for Seraphim at all. I realize a lot of people do but I don't. To me their high points cost and their tendancy to be a massive fire magnet tends to mean they're either hiding behind cover trying not to get shot (in which case I'd rather just buy more assassins) or they're reduced to a third of their original number by the time they get to attack the enemy.

Your seraphim unit there looks to be flirting with the north side of 300 points.

Now to put that in perspective you can probably get 2 more units of ten sisters for that if you fiddle some points around. That's twenty more power armoured wounds, twice as many faithpoints and probably 4 more meltaguns.

Given that your model count as of right now is not so great I'd look into doing that as an option. If I was only playing on smaller tables like I talked about above, I'd definitely do it.

With larger tables you could trade them out for one sisters squad and another INQ stormtrooper squad.

You could also buy one unit of sisters and the Callidus or eversor you wanted. That would actually leave quite a few points left over, allowing you to either expand the size of that sister's squad or spread some evicerators around.

aminek a végén ez lett:

Canoness (1#, 121 Pts)
Book of St. Lucius; Cloak of St. Aspira; Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol; Blessed Weapon

Death-Cult Assassins (2#, 80 Pts)
Close combat weapon; Power Weapon

Inquisitor (3#, 60 Pts)
1 Inquisitor
Power Armour; Close combat weapon; Bolter
1 Acolyte
Carapace Armour; Close combat weapon; Bolter
1 Chirurgeon
Laspistol; Close combat weapon

Assassin Operative (1#, 120 Pts)
1 Officio Assassinorum Operative - Callidus

Battle Sisters Squad (12#, 171 Pts)
11 Battle Sisters Squad
Bolter (x9); Meltagun (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior
Book of St. Lucius; Bolt Pistol; Close combat weapon

Battle Sisters Squad (10#, 266 Pts)
9 Battle Sisters Squad @ 266 Pts
Mount in Rhino; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Bolter (x7); Meltagun (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior @ [25] Pts
Bolt Pistol; Close combat weapon
1 Rhino
Storm bolter; Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers

Stormtroopers (8#, 183 Pts)
7 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Frag Grenades; Hellgun w/ Targeter (x5); Plasma gun (x2)
1 Chimera
Extra Armour; Smoke Launchers; Hull mounted Heavy Bolter; Turret mounted Multi-laser


Seraphim (8#, 225 Pts)
7 Seraphim Squad
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack; Twin Bolt Pistols (x5); Twin Hand Flamers (x2)
1 Veteran Sister Superior
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Simulacrum Imperialis; Jump Pack; Bolt Pistol; Eviscerator


Exorcist (1#, 135 Pts)
Exorcist Missile Launcher

Exorcist (1#, 135 Pts)
Exorcist Missile Launcher

Total Roster Cost: 1496

mkerr:

HQ
1. Add Frag Grenades (+1pt)

ELITE
2. Drop Power Armor from your Inquisitor -- you need him in majority armor because Chirurgeons can only fix wounds put on him. (-10pts)
3. You should either drop the Inquisitorial Retinue completely (and put him in the Chimera with the ISTs) or add some Heavy Bolters to the squad. How do you get the points for heavy bolters? Like this:

TROOPS
4. Lose two Battle Sisters (-22pts)
5. Lose 1 IST (-10pts)

FAST
6. Lose 2 Seraphim (-44pts)

That leaves you with an extra 75pts. Bingo 3 Heavy Bolter Servitors. Giving you a nice 6-man Inquisitorial Retinue (Inquisitor, 3 HB Servitors, Acolyte, and Chirurgeon). They can soak a wound per turn with the Chirurgeon and an additional two wounds (first on the Inquisitor then on the Acolyte) before you start losing Servitors.

It doesn't reduce the overall strength of your army but it adds a nice punch.

orboros:
Here's my recommended list of tweeks

Drop

Power armour on INQ 10pts
acolyte with carapace 13pts
chirurgeon 12pts

both deathcults 80 points (2 is just not enough to matter)

1x stormtrooper 10pts
extra armour and smoke on chimera 8pts

1 seraphim 22pts

evicerator to power weapon on sera superior 15pts

total cuts 170

Add


10 sisters 161 pts
1 melta gun
1 heavy flamer
superior, power weapon

Put this unit in the Rhino you bought for the other sisters squad and let your twin meltagun unit that was riding in it work together with the other twin melta unit as a giant mob of power armour with 4 meltaguns in it.

The inquisitor can just chill with the stormies in the Chimera.

I left you with 13 points left over total to buy something else like a PW for one of your foot units, the inquisitor or the vehicle upgrades I initially stripped off the Chimera.
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gojo
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gojo

Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
Age : 39
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Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

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TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyKedd Dec. 25, 2007 1:41 am

egy kis hq összeállítás mkerr től:

I'm running two Canoness as my HQ. My Elites are the Inquisitor, an Eversor and 3 Deathcult Assassins. In my home games

mielőtt elfelejteném:

I recommend two squads of 6 ISTs (with 2 Plasma Guns) in a Chimera for any army that can take them.

valaki mástól egy kis sereg:

I've been running a mechanised list for a while now - two rhino squads, one with flamers, one with meltas, a six gal seraphim squad with flamers and meltabombs, a jump pack cannones with BoSL, an Exocist, and a Celestian squad with HB and storm bolter as a firebase. All VSS have BoSL.
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Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
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Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

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TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyKedd Dec. 25, 2007 1:19 am

ez másik emberkétől, aki elég tapasztaltnak tűnik...mkerr

1. Table Quarters (e.g., Cleanse): The primary role of Foot Sisters is maintaining control of your deployment quarter (i.e., killing enemies that enter and keeping scoring unit status) while threatening a second quarter.

Deployment: I tend to deploy my two units of Foot Sisters near a quarter boundary (generally in cover). This allows me to keep the units together while threatening two quarters (it also keeps the units in BoSL range). My mobile units (ISTs and Seraphim) move into the other two quarters. Infiltrating units (in my case, DCAs) tend to deploy in my enemy's deployment zone.

Comments: This is one of the easiest mission objectives for me. Sisters are hard as nails when they need to be and are almost impossible to reduce to non-scoring status.

2. Enemy Lines (e.g., Recon): This is a tough one for Foot Sisters. They have to cross 18" of No Man's Land (4 turns of movement to get "entirely in the enemy deployment zone") to score additional victory points. In my games, the primary role of Foot Sisters is denying the enemy from fullfilling the objective.

Deployment: I tend to deploy my Foot Sisters in the center of my deployment zone (as close to the 15" mark), in cover where possible. The goal is to create a zone that your enemy will have to approach. I deploy my fast units to flank my main unit which tends to funnel enemy units into rapid fire range. Expensive Seraphim are great in these missions.

Comments: Alpha Missions with this objective is really tough for Sisters players with 3 or more units of Foot Sisters. In the Alpha mission, you have to slog your way across the board. I tend to have at least 3 very mobile units (usually 2 ISTs in Chimeras and a Seraphim squad) to help me with mission in particular.

3. Loot (e.g., Secure and Control): This is really two missions. The first one is easy (more objectives near you) and the second one is hard (more objectives far away).

A Sisters army should have lots of scoring units. It's always easier for a Sister's unit to maintain scoring status than other armies. So in the easy version, you put as many Foot Sisters around the objectives as you can. In the hard version, you use your fast units to clear enemies from the objectives (Seraphim are particularly good at this) while your Foot Sisters walk up to wrestle control.

Deployment/Comments: I have a lot of success with these missions. The Loot counters are placed before deployment zones are selected and a Liber Heresius gives you a 92% chance of picking your deployment zone. So I tend to place my Loot counters closer to one side, which has a tendency to weight the table in the direction to the side I want to choose.

4. The Field of Battle (e.g., Take and Hold): The Foot Sisters role in these missions is to get to the center of the board -- so 2 or 3 turns of walking.

Deployment: Deploy your Foot Sisters as close to the objective as cover allows and immediately move into "striking distance". I tend to find cover that will allow me to move within 12" of the center of the board in two turns. I tend to use my fast units as counter charge and mobile cover in these games. Creating a firing lane on the objective is critical.

5. Annhilation (e.g., Seek and Destroy): These are pretty straight forward.
Deployment: Since you start 24" apart, Sisters perform really well in this mission.
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Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
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TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyKedd Dec. 25, 2007 1:17 am

ném taktika az elöbbi emberkétől, az elöbbi seregekre...

Basic Mechanized Sisters Tactics

This covers from Deployment to turn 3 (ish). Because anything that happens after that is generally not going to be able to be predicted in a manner that a simple document like this could cover.

Primary Tactic:

Most Sisters players know this, but I'm going to state the obvious anyways:
The primary method of obtaining victory is to maintain your stance of power. The Sisters' "stance of power" is short-range (1-12") shooting. The main objective of a mechanized Sisters of Battle army list is to get your troops into that stance as quickly as possible, and to maintain it for as long as possible.
Consider your shooting as a package. The rhino is the delivery vehicle.

Note: These tactics are for an opposing, static army - but they are just as applicable vs mobile-mech and assault armies. Against mobile-mech armies, use the rhinos to keep up with the opponent and apply shooting liberally, they can be easier because the numbers of models in mobile-mech armies are lower. Against assault armies, you can even foot it, using a turn outside the rhinos to shoot at models in range. Then use the rhinos to drive a path (tank-shock!), dividing the army into manageable chunks... shoot and flame to your leisure

Deployment:

My deployment rules are simple.

1 - Place Exorcists to control major fire-lanes. Many opponents do not want their vehicles staring down that missile launcher. If you're worried about his anti-tank, place behind a piece of terrain that you can drive into on turn 1 and fire from.

2 - Start rhino deployment in center of your DZ. Try to shield, but center is more important than shielding. Then pick one side (usually the side towards where you opponent is deploying his troops - but not always), deploy additional rhinos to that side, and that side only - staying relatively near the center. You can either set them all up on the same side as your Exorcists, to overload a flank, or opposite your Exorcists to have them refuse that flank.

3 - Seraphim hide behind rhinos or to a shielded side of them. Canoness' are by the Seras, but never join them.

Turn 1:

With the new objective rules, many opponents will opt to go second - to gain than last grab for table quarters, objectives, etc. This is good for us - because on Turn 1 our rhinos are most fragile (if you're really worried about it, you can deploy the units outside the rhinos... how often do you unload at the end of Turn 1??). You want to go first though. It increases your odds of winning by... a lot. (Note to non-WH players: do not read this... I am, um, lying - yeah that's it, lying.) Why? Because a lot of whether or not you win or they win is based upon them stopping the rhinos. If they stop rhinos before your girls are able to get close enough and have to foot it the rest of the way there... (well, you just know how cranky your Sisters get when they have to walk far in those heels!), then they have won.
If you go first, your opponent will get one round of shooting your transports before the get there. If you go second, he gets two. He doubles his chances of stopping your assault. Against "shooty" armies, this can be disastrous.

So how do we use our deployment and first turn to enable delivery? My favorite tactic is Bisecting. This is both harder and easier against a castled opponent - but your standard spread deployment opponent makes for a standard Bisection.
Bisection is the practice of dealing with part of the opponent's army at a time (specifically, half). Drive two rhinos straight forward to form a wall at/near the table center (if there's terrain there, this is even easier) and pop smoke. Other rhinos should "hide" behind this wall - the forward one may still need to use their smoke. With the Seraphim/Canoness safely behind all this.
If done right, you've allowed your opponent to really only shoot at 2 smoked, rhinos.
At the same time, bring your Exorcists guns to bear on the unit(s) most likely hurt your rhinos: dev squads & tanks. Make your opponent pay attention to them. He should now be stuck as to what to attempt to take out - the rhinos or the Exorcists.
Note: in my games, I typically lose 0-1 rhinos in the first turn, and suffer a damaged exorcist - sometimes destroyed.

Turn 2:

If you have more than 1 rhino lost at this point: the game may be rough - or you didn't screen properly - or the dice gods hate you.

Move any remaining rhinos that have not used their smoke to the fore-center of the table, and use their smoke. Possibly deploying a unit on the forward rhino on your protected side (especially if you lost a rhino). The other rhinos pull max distance ahead to the protected side of your rhino wall and deploy troops. Make sure that your rhinos do no block LOS for your Exorcists to what they need to shoot at.
Note: you choose what side is the "protected" side... I've changed my mind at this point in the game as to which side I wish to go after.

Seraphim again move up behind the new wall. Canoness may do same, or split to start "hunting" - try to make sure something else will be closer to enemies though... nothing quite like having to burn Faith early to protect her in the shooting phase.

Use a "focus of fire" to engage larger units with your deployed sisters. Engage small units (6 man min squads) on a one-to-one basis. You should be able to wipe out most anything within immediate range with judicious use of Divine Guidance.
Sidenote Tactic: My fave Battle Sister Squad config has a Hvy Flamer and Meltagun. Against lighter troops, if there is a vehicle behind their squad, I have a dirty tactic of firing at the vehicle with the squad - allowing the meltagun to damage the vehicle, and the hvy flamer to take out models in the squad (as long as the template hits the vehicle). My local Tau players have learned to never deploy in front of their vehicles...

If your Seraphim are in charge range, go ahead - but since you've been shielding them, I highly doubt it.

This turn is designed to make your opponent wince and to refocus his attention on your package. From this point on, if your Exorcists are ok, he will probably not have the luxury of being able to shoot at them.

Turn 3:

You probably have one squad engaged by an opposing unit - if they're small, a Canoness can easily worm them out. You may consider abandoning the unit, either Kennying the VSS, or using SotM to make them a tarpit to hold that unit for the rest of the game (my fave against assault squads).

Move undeployed rhino units (if they're ok) up to find a DG target, combo them with a unit that you suffered some losses in and aren't sure about getting off your Act of Faith (< Cool. Generally use the Battle Sisters to sweep through whatever troops are on that side of the battlefield. Use any still running rhinos to continue to shield them from other half of army - tank-shocking where beneficial (e.g. any non-fearless/tank-hunting unit) - even Ld 10 fails. Bring up any prev Entangled units.

Move Seraphim to intercept counter-charge units and engage them. Use unit edges to minimize the return damage threat. On your opponent's turn, you'll use SotM (if power weapon/fist is there) to minimize casualties, then Hit-n-Run.

Move Canoness' to hunt small units and IC's, or even armor if Evisc equipped.

Wrap Up

If you've come this far, the game is pretty much in hand. Continue to use the Seraphim to prevent your Battle Sisters from being engaged, then jumping out on your opponent's turn to leave them vulnerable to fire. You'll lose a unit or two at this point, but that's ok - you'll need their Faith soon enough.

If your opponent runs his other half army away, use your rhinos and exorcists to corral them. Weaponless exorcists can still tank-shock and/or grab objectives.
Seraphim and Canoness can catch most runners easily.

Manage your Faith, get it back via Martyrdom when necessary. If you think a unit might break, make sure to pull either the VSS as a casualty or all models in base-to-base, since you get no Faith being run down.


Well... that's it for now - I'm spent.
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Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
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Location : Pécs
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 Empty
TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyKedd Dec. 25, 2007 1:08 am

oké ez egy kurva hosszú összefoglaló, amit az egyik srác írt be. majd elolvasom. most csak összegyűjtöm. nem lesz rövid...

HQ

Canoness: The cream of the codex. Works well tooled up or to just sit back and direct your lines with a book of St Lucius. Run two if your list is over 1500. I like to run her with an Eviscerator, Cloak of St Aspira, Jumppack, and Bolt Pistol (if I run 2, the 2nd one has the Blessed Weapon and frags).

Palatine: Poor man's Canoness. For only 10 pts more, you get 1 more attack, 1 more wound, 1 more Ld, and 1 more Faith. Points well spent, thank you.

OH Inquisitor Lord: Good in 3rd Ed as a screened firebase. Now he sucks. Why? If you choose to make a firebase out of him, it will die to bolter fire and he will be left useless. If you try to make an assault unit, it can only produce an ok assault unit, that costs more than many other armies' elite assaulters - and they struggle with delivery. He is not needed for the Hood, Sisters have enough protection from psychic powers already. So there isn't a whole lot of stuff left for him to do.

Priests: Only useful in Zealot squads. And you need one in your army to take other units. But I never take those other units, so it's not an issue.

Elites

OH Inquisitor: Suffers from same issues as Lord, but is cheaper. Yippee.

Arco-flagellants: One of three great looking new models in the WH range - and all their rules suck (LE sigh). Arcos have the potential to be a devastating assault unit. So why don't they work? They are overcosted and have no delivery system. Sure, maybe a unit like this is really worth 35 points, but not if they never reach the opponent. The 4+ save isn't enough to protect them long enough to get them to combat. So in order to get them to combat, you have to activate their implants... which gets them killed - how fun! Any opposing commander who knows anything about this unit will never let it reach his lines. And they're too expensive to use as a distraction of that sort.

Celestian Squad: Decent unit. 2 more pts than a Battle Sister gets you Faithful without a VSS, +1 Ld, +1 WS, and Hatred (preferred enemy: everyone). Is it worth it? Not normally. They are a good choice if you want a smaller unit (less than 10), and you don't want/need a VSS. They make a decent 6-model unit with 2 meltas for tank-hunting. Don't get fooled into thinking that because of Hatred that they can be a good assault unit. They become an "ok" assault unit - but their strength still lies in bolters and Faith - and in those areas, Battle Sisters are just as good. You also have to be careful here, because you cannot "Kenny" the VSS to gain a Faith point back.

Sisters Repentia: Wow what beautiful models! Wow what terrible rules! T3 with a 4+ save = Hvy Bolter bait. Even if they do reach the enemy (through some miracle), they still strike last and will lose another significant portion of their numbers before they even strike. The only squads they are good against are expensive models - more expensive than their whole squad: vehicles, dreads, monstrous creatures, and terminators. But no one will ever let them get there, and they're even easier to stop than Arcos are.

Temple Assassins: Hardly ever earn their points back - even worse, you have to have an Inquisitor to take one. I know the game isn't all about "earning points back," but I have yet to see an assassin even change the game that much.

Death Cult Assassins: This assassin is worth her points. Too bad an Inquisitor is required to take one - she's not worth her points + the INQ. A great use is to use their Infiltration to create a virtual Denied Flank. Infiltrate three of them on one flank will make many commanders avoid that area entirely. Because of their bad save, they must remain hidden until attacking.

Troops

Battle Sisters Squad: If the Canoness is the cream, these gals are the bread and butter. Default sized for rhino deployment or larger (14 or 16) for foot-slogging. Always, always, always take the VSS. Weapon options: flamers (hvy and normal) are only good if you have a transport to deliver them in; meltaguns are great too - should be the only weapon in foot-sloggers; stormbolters are not a good option. Sure SB's give you more ranged firepower, but are really only worth it if your unit is going to sit back - Sisters should never just sit back. My pref loadout is Hvy Flamer & Meltagun.
On the VSS, naked w/ bolter is great; also good is a Book of St Lucius (on every second or third unit - remember to use their 6" range!); and another great option is an Eviscerator. The Evisc is good because it can actually make your unit a bit of a tarpit when it comes to assaults. And you're one Act of Faith away from Insta-killing any opposing IC that decides to take you on. Combi-flamer or Brazier are ok... I just don't really go for the one-use weapons in normal situations. Every other weapon option is terrible.

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers: Let's see here, for 1 pt less than Battle Sisters, you get -1 Save, worse vet option, much worse gun, and no Faith. But you get access to plasmaguns and chimeras. Not really enough, IMO.

Fast Attack

Seraphim: [Choir of Angels]"Ahhhhh!"[/Choir of Angels] This unit and it's proper use can win you more games than any other unit in your army. They can assault, counter-assault, tank-hunt, and IC hunt. Hand flamers are great for an assault unit, inferno pistols great for small tank-hunting units, and one of each great for all-purpose units.
A VSS is required if you want this unit to assault. She provides the punch and a built-in Imperialis Simulacrum (boo-yah). I prefer Eviscerators on her, so much more power. Strength 3 Power Weapons are worthless, in fact they near guarantee that you'll use an extra Faith to get +2 Str... and then you'll be going last anyways!

Dominion Squad: Decent option - often overlooked because of the stunning qualities of the Seraphim. I prefer them with flamers. Meltaguns are too expensive in this unit - you can pull off melta units with either Celestians for small units, or Battle Sisters for larger. Some mix 2 flamers and 2 meltas - this could be good too. I also prefer the 10 model unit in rhino over Immolators (but that discussion is in a later post). VSS is also required here, but I like the model naked w/ bolter.

Heavy Support

Retributors: Good with Heavy Bolters, not with Multi-Meltas. I like to apply the same principle with Devastator squads (2:1 ratio) here. That means either 8 Retributors with 4 HvyB's or 6 Ret's with 3 HvyB's. VSS is also required for Faith. Do not make the mistake of trying to use Faith on this unit. Divine Guidance is made for up close shooting - as in rapid fire range. The HvyB's are powerful enough that they don't require a lot of assistance, save it for the bolters.

Immolator: I will never take one. Sure, they're fluffy, and the model is great. But man do they ever have a target painted on them. More appropriately named, "Flaming Coffin of Doom."
Because of this issue, I also do not like them as Transport options, where available. Factory Default Rhinos* do it for me.

Exorcist: Also known as, "The reason I never take Retributors." This is the only model in the whole codex that I am willing to "give up" Faith for. In other words, it is not Faithful and brings no Faith to my list. Who cares? Holy crap, this thing is good! One is a bit of a gamble, so two are required for most 1500 lists. Want to see an opponent cry? Bring three. Some people cry cheese, beardy, OTT, etc. But the truth of the matter is, that the Exorcist is the only (viable) real long-range firepower that the list has.

Penitent Engines: Big, beautiful model. Buy one, paint it, put it on the shelf and sigh. This thing blows. 80pts? 11AV?? Open-topped??? GAH!!! This might, might, might(!) be worth it if you were allowed to give it smoke launchers (maybe), but you're not, so it's not.

Orbital Strike: DH players don't even use this... don't you either.

*Factory Default Rhinos - contrary to popular belief, Rhinos come from the factory with Extra Armour and Smoke Launchers installed and cost 58 pts, not 50.

Extras

Zealots: Ok, these should probably go in Troops, but since they're not in the codex, I'm putting them here. 20 of these with Eviscerator Fanatics and a Priest are scary. Fragile, but scary. Demagogues and Exterminators are not required and just bump up the point cost of the unit.

Inducted Guard: Infantry Platoons can be used to give your OH list firepower - but that requires you to be running OH (*shudder*).
Sentinels are a decent option as well. (They're part of my "fun" OH giants list - to be seen later.)
Leman Russ can provide a bit of "oomph," too.

Allied Marines: Not worth it at all. Can't have Sisters in the list. Guard do it just as well for inducting purposes. If you want to mix marines, then take a marine army and add Witchhunter allies.

Faith

Faith is the belief in things that can't be proved. Except in 40K, where we prove that Faith kicks ass.

Guideline - I believe you should have a base 2 Faith, +2-3 for every 500 pts in the army:
500 pts 4 Faith
1000 pts 6-7
1500 pts 8-10
1850 pts 10-12

Proper use of Faith will win the battle. Without it, Sisters are on the bottom of the food chain... even below orks (ouch). Allow me to cover two things before getting into the Acts of Faith themselves.

1 - Imagifer/Imperialis Simulacrum. Allows you to roll 3 dice and pick best two for AoF once per turn. Sound good? You bet. Overused? Too often. The best use of this item comes for units that have to accomplish certain tasks. Have to. Fortunately, the unit (Seraphim) that most often has to absolutely do something, comes with it built-in to their VSS. I don't know why I see this in people's Battle Sister Squads, I really don't. Squads should be designed in size to accomplish the type of Act you expect that squad to need to roll. Really only Seraphim and Canoness' are the ones that will use muliple types of rolls (roll >= or <=).

2 - "Kennying." Brough to us by our friends at South Park. "Kennying" is the method of gaining Faith to use in the army, by pulling a VSS as a casualty - especially when she doesn't need to be. Granted, this should preferably be a naked VSS, so you're not wasting points. Some lists can really burn through the Faith, and getting it back is very important - more important than a single VSS in a depleted squad, anyhow.

Acts of Faith

Hand of the Emperor: Only use should be to make an Eviscerator wielding model Str 8 for purposes on insta-killing. Could also be used as last-ditch effort to make squad Str 5 to hurt Monstrous Creatures, but normally not.

Divine Guidance: If you don't know how to use this AoF... give up and get another army. Short-range bolter fire and flamer templates, oh yes. Hardly ever worth it in assault.
Most used Act of Faith

The Passion: Rare and judicious use of this AoF is called for. The +2 Init is rarely going to make a difference, excepting a Blessed Weapon Canoness.

Light of the Emperor: Again, a rare AoF. Saving small units from running off the table is very rarely worth it.

Spirit of the Martyr: Friend of Seraphim and Canoness' everywhere. Other squads can use it as well, if engaged with especially deadly units, in order to tarpit them.
Second-most used Act of Faith

Army Lists

Thought I would throw up a couple army lists that I've played for your perusal. The first is my Sisters list. It plays hard and doesn't give a lot of lee-way to my opponents. It also has guys at my FLGS that won't play it outside of tournaments, because they want to have a chance of winning. The second list is an OH list that I put together to have fun with. It rarely wins, certainly would never do so at a tournament, but throws many opponents for a bit of a loop.

1850 Sisters - Order of the Dusty Rose
HQ - 244 pts
Canoness, Jump, Cloak, BlessWpn/InfP, Frags - 131 pts
Canoness, Jump, Cloak, Evisc/BP - 111 Pts
Troops - 870 pts
10 Battle Sisters, Hvy Flamer, Melta, VSS w/ Evisc & BoSL in *Rhino - 234 pts
10 Battle Sisters, Hvy Flamer, Melta, VSS w/ Evisc & BoSL in *Rhino - 234 pts
10 Battle Sisters, Hvy Flamer, Flamer, VSS w/ Bolter in *Rhino - 200 pts
10 Battle Sisters, 2 x Melta, VSS w/ Bolter in *Rhino - 202 pts
Fast Attack - 466 pts
8 Seraphim, Hand Flamer, Inferno Pistol, VSS w/ Evisc - 233 pts
8 Seraphim, Hand Flamer, Inferno Pistol, VSS w/ Evisc - 233 pts
Heavy Support - 270 pts
Exorcist - 135 pts
Exorcist - 135 pts

1850 Ordo Hereticus - They Might Be Giants
HQ - 246 pts
Inquisitor Lord Karamazov - 205 pts
Priest, BP/CCW - 41 pts (attached to Zealots)
Elites - 360 pts
3 Death Cult Assassins - 120 pts
3 Death Cult Assassins - 120 pts
Callidus Assassin - 120 pts
Troops - 672 pts
6 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 x plasmaguns - 80 pts
6 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers, 2 x plasmaguns - 80 pts
Inducted Guard Armored Fist - 180 pts
10 Guardsmen, Las/plas in Chimera w/ HHB (deploy outside Chimera)
Inducted Guard Armored Fist - 180 pts
10 Guardsmen, Las/plas in Chimera w/ HHB (deploy outside Chimera)
20 Zealots,2 x flamers, 2 x Fanatics w/ Evisc - 152 pts
Fast Attack - 100 pts
1 Sentinel - 50 pts
1 Sentinel - 50 pts
Heavy Support - 465 pts
2 Penitent Engines - 160 pts
2 Penitent Engines - 160 pts
1 Leman Russ, hull HB - 145 pts

Just a couple illustrations, even though the second one goes against most of the advice I gave in my posts. It can be quite fun to have 4 PE's, Lord Karamazov, and the Zealots all moving up one side, while the Assassins pin the other.
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gojo
dandártábornok
dandártábornok
gojo

Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
Age : 39
Location : Pécs
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 Empty
TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyKedd Dec. 25, 2007 12:44 am

na találtam egy 500 as kezdőre is valamit...

Canoness (Bolt Pistol, Blessed Weapon)
10 Battle Sisters (Bolters x7, Flamer, Storm Bolter)
includes a Veteran Sister Superior (Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon)
10 Battle Sisters (Bolters x7, Flamer, Storm Bolter)
includes a Veteran Sister Superior(Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon)
5 Seraphim (TL Bolt Pistols x3, TL Hand Flamer)
includes a Veterain Sister Superior (Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon)

That will give you a strong base to build on. Add some additional Sisters, a few other special weapons (like Meltaguns and Heavy Flamers), then a Celestian squad and a few vehicles/tanks and you have a competitive force.

mielőtt elfelejtem itt van az inkvizítort követő csoport:

Inquisitor (Carapace Armor, Bolter, Liber Heresius)
Retinue: Acolyte (Bolter, Carapace Armor) x2, Chirugeon, Heavy Bolter Servitors x3
Cost: 164pts
Use: This is a tough little squad in cover. The majority armor save stays 4+ forever which means the chirurgeon is like the Energizer Bunny.


A hozzászólást összesen 2 alkalommal szerkesztette, legutóbb Kedd Dec. 25, 2007 1:11 am-kor.
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gojo
dandártábornok
dandártábornok
gojo

Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
Age : 39
Location : Pécs
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 Empty
TémanyitásTárgy: Re: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyKedd Dec. 25, 2007 12:18 am

HQ
6 Deathwatch Kill Team 233pts
Bolter/CCW x3; Heavy Bolter x2; Deathwatch Librarian (FotA)

Canoness 62pts (BoSL, PW/BP)

ELITES
Inquisitor 131pts (Frags, PW/BP)
Chirurgeons x2, Heavy Bolter Gun Servitors x3

Culexus Assassin 105pts

3 Death-Cult Assassins 120pts

TROOPS
10 Battle Sisters 144pts
Bolter x7, Meltagun x2, VSS w/Bolter

10 Battle Sisters 144pts
Bolter x7, Meltagun x2, VSS w/Bolter

10 Battle Sisters 144pts
Bolter x7, Meltagun x2, VSS w/Bolter

6 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers 165pts
Hellgun x4, Plasma Gun x2, Chimera (Multi-laser/Heavy Bolter)

6 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers 165pts
Hellgun x4, Plasma Gun x2, Chimera (Multi-laser/Heavy Bolter)

HEAVY
8 Retributors 167pts
Bolter x3, Heavy Bolter x4, VSS (BoSL, Bolter)

Exorcist 135pts

Exorcist 135pts

Faith: 6
Points: 1850

Ok on that list there the first thing that comes to my mind is why do you need marines in a sisters army?

I'd chop out those marines, upgrade your inquisitor to a lord and give him the hood instead, everything else retinue wise stays the same. Oh look at that, a clear slot and enough points for 3 more deathcultists and an upgrade for the Culexus into a Callidus.

That's going to cause way way way more early game pain to the other guy than any number of move and fire bolter shots or the massively over-rated FotA ever will. You're also not losing the hood or the Ld 10.

Net gain my friend.

They might not claim objectives but with an assassin ambush net that wide and a Callidus popping up anywhere she pleases he probably won't be either.

Do that and you've then got 48 points left to play with. All you have to do now is kill a storm trooper from each squad (6 instead of five isn't a difference really since all you want from them is the chimera and RF plasma guns) to get you to 68.

With this 68 we then buy a Rhino with EA and smoke for one of the sisters troop squads.

With the ten left we buy their superior a power weapon and turn one of their meltas into a flamer to take advantage of any bunched nids we roll past. Now we've got 4 points left so searchlights on all the transports and one exorcist in case there's a nightfight mission in the tourney.
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gojo
dandártábornok
dandártábornok
gojo

Male Hozzászólások száma : 1694
Age : 39
Location : Pécs
Registration date : 2007. Dec. 11.

Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 Empty
TémanyitásTárgy: Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...)   Inkvizíció (sob, gk, stb...) - Page 3 EmptyKedd Dec. 25, 2007 12:02 am

mielőtt valaki megijed, hogy ezmegmilyenhosszú...hát igen ezek hosszú postok lesznek. leginkább azért, mert ahogy haladok előre a 300+ oldalnyi forumbejegyzéssel a warseeren, nem szeretném a legjobb dolgokat elfelejteni. ezért szépen ide bemásolom őket. szóval sob fanatikusokon kívül nem hiszem,hogy bárkit is érintenek ezek a bejegyzések. nekem viszont sokat fognak segíteni a sereg kialakításán. mondjuk ha valakinek van bármi hozzáfűznivalója, akkor csak nyugodtan...


az innen onnan összeszedett listák lelőhelye...

itt is az első:

HQ

Canoness 95pts
Evicerator, book of SL, cloak of aspira

Palatine 60pts
Evicerator
Celestian Retinue 165pts
8x Celestians, melta/heavy flamer
Vet superior with Evicerator, meltabombs
Rhino 58pts
Smoke, extra armour

Elites

Inquisitor 20pts

Death Cult Assassins 120pts
3x assassins

Eversor assassin 95pts

Troops

Battle sisters Squad 159pts
10x battle sisters, 2x melta
Vet superior with power weapon, book of SL.

Battle sisters Squad 159pts
10x battle sisters, 2x melta
Vet superior with power weapon, book of SL.

Battle sisters Squad 159pts
10x battle sisters, 2x melta
Vet superior with power weapon, book of SL.

Chimera Multi/Heavy bolter EA 90pts
6 Storm Troopers 2x Plasma 80pts

Chimera Multi/Heavy bolter EA 90pts
6 Storm Troopers 2x Plasma 80pts

Heavy Support

Exorcist 135pts

Exorcist 135pts

Total Points 1700pts
Total Faith 7 pts

leginkább a hq-n gondolkodik még a gyerek. lehet a celestianok helyett inkább egy dominion sqad.


A hozzászólást összesen 3 alkalommal szerkesztette, legutóbb Csüt. Jan. 10, 2008 5:51 pm-kor.
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